"The Eighth Pillar", inspired by the life and works of T.E. Lawrence, is perhaps the major CON -Dom project thus far. It spawned the vinyl debut of CON - DOM with the release of "The Eighth Pillar" LP in 1992 (after 8 years of cassette only releases) and has since generated a booklet, a live CD/cassette release and a series of live assault manifestations around the world.

In a previous interview (ref. Electric Shock Treatment 4, Winter 1992), you said that with "The Eighth Pillar”, CON-DOM is "breaking new ground, looking beyond religion (a past preoccupation) and journeying into the realms of the intensely personal." Can you expand upon this?

Many early CON-DOM works focussed on religious faith - an essentially mass phenomenon - imposed - controlling - hypocritical - a spurious attempt to instil meaning, a raison d'etre, into the deluded lives of a sad humanity. The aim was destructive - as with most CON~DOM output up to this point - to expose the hypocrisy, to ridicule, to lay bare prescribed, institutionalised religious faith for the sham that it is' - like all authorised control systems/safety nets/safety valves.

"The Eighth Pillar" is concerned with personal faith - individual belief and philosophy, utilising Lawrence as a model, an example, an inspiration. The aim here, perhaps for the first time, is constructive - to demonstrate through the distillation of a life lived - Lawrence's life experience - the working out of a very personal (non-religious) faith in practice; to show what is possible; to illustrate an approach; but not to provide answers or solutions - this is not a blueprint - or to posit yet another 'church ' / movement for the feeble to flock / cling to.

A great deal of the written promotional material concerning "The Eighth Pillar" and its significance stressed its attempt to explore the inner self and the human condition. You suggest that Lawrence discovered 'real freedom' and that he is an inspiring figure. Why do you believe this ? What did he actually achieve ? What did he strive and crave for ?

The 'real freedom' enjoyed by Lawrence was not freedom in the accepted political or social sense. Neither was it an absolute, enduring freedom. Rather it was a fleeting. yet potent freedom, born of extreme physical and emotional experience - the asceticism of an alien desert lifestyle; the searing, blinding violence of primitive warfare; the exhilaration of unbridled speed; the ecstacy of flight with its liberation from earthbound shackles. It was only in these places, at these times and in these circumstances, at the very limits of his mental and bodily faculties that he was truly himself, truly free, well and truly rid of the stifling irrelevancies of humanity / society- so-called life.

What is inspiring in all of this is not the facts of his existence - the desert life, the killings, the motorbikes, the planes; not his well documented achievements - his key role in the successful WW1 desert campaign against the Turkish Army, and in the partition of the Middle East. What he did is totally irrelevant. What is important is the constant striving, the searching for, something more in life to which his existence is a testimony. The yearning for further spiritual (non-religious !) advancement; the endless pushing against artificial limits, straining against the leash to points beyond endurance; the unwillingness to accept the crass mediocracy of imposed ideas and norms of behaviour, in pursuit of actually feeling ALIVE - there lies real inspiration.

"The Eighth Pillar" LP was recorded and mixed 29/7 - 31/7/91. In my earlier interview you stated that "the sophisticated nature of the work and in particular the wide and intensive utilisation of layered, found sound demanded the use of multi-track studio facilities and a high quality reproduction." Firstly, can you tell me something about the recording process in the studio and your relationship with the producer (was this the first time you had enlisted the assistance of a producer ?), and secondly, can you describe your working method in regard to preparation and composition. The project was a long time in the making so the pre-production process must have been very intense.

The pre-production process holds the key to a proper understanding of what is heard on "The Eighth Pillar"' LP - the particular sound sources used, reasons for their selection and juxtaposition, their wider context within the project .

The process was indeed intense, time-consuming and rigorous in ensuring that the 'correct' sounds - reflective/representative of Lawrence's life - were obtained and then ‘correctly’ placed relative to each other, the theme of individual pieces and also the visual elements of the project. "Confession of Faith" - the long 3 - part piece which fills most of side 2 - is perhaps the best example of this process at work.        

The piece was conceived as the soundtrack to "The Eighth Pillar" film (considered later ) which in turn was intended as a visual representation of Lawrence's life. Sounds selected were directly, and literally or symbolically, related to the film action - motorbikes acid galloping horses for speed sequences; whip cracks / screams for flagellation shots; the strains of Elgar - (a favourite composer) to signify the peace / contentment of domestic solitude; traditional Arab chants and music to symbolise the desert; and looped crash sounds for the final denouement.

These sounds were assembled from TV documentary footage, existing musical and sound effects recordings and live field recordings, then closely scripted / storyboarded, in appropriate combinations, to tie in with the film, right down to strict running times, fades, cuts etc. Texts ( see "The Eighth Pillar" booklet ) were developed from Lawrence 's own published works (e.g. "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" ), from his letters and biographies, and in one case from the Bible, in order to emphasise experiences / beliefs/ thoughts of particular perceived importance.

The actual recording process was one which has now become more or less common to all CON-DOM studio sessions. It is in no way peculiar to "The Eighth Pillar". Each piece was created through the aggregation / accretion of pre-prepared / selected sounds (on cassette, record or CD), individually 'laid' on a track by track basis, either in original form, as short studio constructed samples or longer loops. Vocals were added, sometimes treated at source, sometimes not. The resultant collage was then mixed, with the addition of further treatments ( e.g. on vocals ), and put down as a 'live take'. The studio is essentially a high-tech tool necessary to do a particular job - in this case, primarily the accommodation of a large number of individual sound sources and their presentation as a high quality composite which (still) retains the integrity of its constituent parts. The role of the technical assistant / engineer (no producer was employed) was to interpret, explain and operate the 'tool', and to use his knowledge of the technology to achieve prescribed sound aspirations

The French label SFCR, who you have a good working relationship with, released the LP. The packaging was fairly stark, comprising a plain white sleeve encircled by a narrow strip of paper containing artwork, general information. acknowledgements and the CON-DOM symbol – the hands-bound man on bended knee. How did you decide upon this design and can you explain the significance of the CON-DOM symbol?

The starkness of the packaging reflects the concepts of asceticism and purity so integral to Lawrence 's life. It is also a deliberate throwback to the classically austere anti music biz packaging of industrial records such as TG's "2nd Annual Report" and the early COME ORG releases. Other elements of the packaging were also carefully designed / chosen to reflect / symbolise something of Lawrence and his work. The narrow wraparound artwork strip contains 7 original images from "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" - 7 different strip designs were used, in which the images appear in 7 different configurations - the strips themselves are affixed in one of 7 different positions on the sleeve. No two sleeves are alike within the 300 copy run .

The 'A' and 'B' stamps on the record labels are taken from an alphabet of small initial letters, designed by Edward Wadsworth in 1919 as individual zinc line blocks on lead bodies, and used in "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". Special rubber stamps were manufactured modelled on the original design .

The CON - DOM symbol / logo represents the fundamental themes of CONTROL and DOMINATION. What better image than man shackled and brought to his knees - humbled and yet still reaching skywards, erect - a fusing of both his miserable condition and yet his latent potential and capacity for renaissance.

CON-DOM is more than just the 'music' – CON-DOM is a multimedia operation.

"The Eighth Pillar" LP was previewed in Birmingham on 23/9/91 with a live manifestation featuring a specially made film accompaniment to the music. Is film something that you've been involved with for some time ? How is it relevant to the music ? Can you discuss the film specifically made for "The Eighth Pillar" ?

Film visuals (8mm silent and slide projection) have been an integral part of CON-DOM operations from the outset. They form a key part of the integrated sensory assault which is the CON-DOM live experience. Film can serve to illuminate concepts / themes which may not be clearly conveyed through aural bombardment. Alternatively, it may confuse, confound, cloud issues or muddy shallow waters - it is impossible to legislate for intelligence deficiencies in an audience. The Pavlovian response mechanism is always likely to prevail over limited powers of thought. The hope is that if nothing else, the use of film should at least work to focus attention and provoke reaction. The film of "The Eighth Pillar" was intended ( as referred earlier ) as a visual representation of Lawrence 's life. It is not a literal, linear biographical account - rather it represents, reflects, relates and, in part, reconstructs (e.g. live re-enactments of flagellation, speed driving and death scenes) phases, episodes, aspects, locations and experiences in his life - his masochism, his rape, desert lifestyle, love of speed, his death - which are perceived as particularly pertinent to an understanding of Lawrence - his inner self, motivations, personal faith, importance. Accompanying the release of the LP, although not simultaneous with it (it appeared later) was the limited edition booklet (still available).

Accompanying the release of the LP, although not simultaneous with it ( it appeared later ) was the limited edition booklet "Printed Matter - The Eighth Pillar", published by CHEESES .  INTERNATIONAL, described in publicity material as "an essential companion to the recorded works." This contains texts, artwork and illustrations. Why was this produced separately and how did you come to choose the publisher ?

It was always the intention to publish accompanying texts, writings and artwork in some form, in order to further illuminate the messages of “The Eighth Pillar". The approach from CHEESES with whom we were already in contact and who had already had experience of publishing, presented an ideal mechanism for realising the intention. Given the size / cost of such an undertaking - 20 page booklet with card stock cover - it was always likely to be a separate project and was never considered for inclusion with the LP.

Live performances of "The Eighth Pillar" have featured on 3 video releases. How happy were you with these presentations ?

"The Duchess of York " is an appalling representation - way too dark and shot by a moron. It should never have been released and is in fact unsanctioned.   We refuse to stock it .

The Armpit Gallery presentation, featured on the "Macrocephalous Compost 1" compilation (on OLD EUROPA CAFE), is the best of the three - the most faithful to the intended live experience. Sensitively shot, with roving camera work in a sympathetically lit space. It captures the performance elements to particularly good effect. The "Heavy Electronics" footage is technically very proficient with generous use of editing suite technology / trickery - perhaps at times to, the point of overload !  It works well as an exciting live document but lacks the simple purity and honesty of the Armpit recording

Was the 1994 "Box of Rain" exhibition in Northampton related to "The Eighth Pillar" ? If so, can you describe the material you supplied and the reasons for participating ?

"Box of Rain" was in no way related to "The Eighth Pillar". The exhibition was a general opportunity to specifically highlight CON-DOM's use of print media - artwork, posters, flyers, postcards etc.- as part of the overall visual palette; and to expose CON-DOM to a new type of audience.

The last Lawrence related work to appear was the "Prince of Our Disorder" MCD / tape document. Again, as with so many of your works, there was special importance placed upon the packaging. The CD and tape are contained within a silk-screened hessian bag, with printed card and insert, and secured at the neck by a bullwhip tie. Some comments on the importance of spending time and effort on the packaging ? Why the title ?

As with "The Eighth Pillar", the packaging is designed to reflect Lawrence's essential asceticism – the austerity of harsh hessian sacking ; the leather whip ties symbolising his severe self-discipline / masochism ( low numbered copies of 'Prince' are tied with strands from the whip used in live performances of “Eighth Pillar” ).

The importance, generally, of spending time and effort on packaging was elaborated on in our earlier interview. It comes back to CON-DOM as a multi-media operation. Product packaging, as much as any other element - film, sound etc.- has the potential to communicate ; to contribute to a greater understanding of the CON-DOM message. Lawrence was dubbed 'A Prince of Our Disorder' by the essayist Irving Howe in his 1963 book "A World More Attractive". It is an epithet which aptly captures his significance as both a mirror of our condition and a model for our salvation. Subsequent releases with Lawrence links include "An Agony (Common Currency)" on 'The First Sermon' 7", itself based on "The Mint" - forthcoming on the SFCR "Control-Domination" CD; and "Endlessly Repeated Evolutions of Drilled-Uniformity (The Persistence of An Agony)" on the recent ANT ZEN "Parasit" compilation LP. More are likely to follow.

You've described how "The Eighth Pillar" deals with individual beliefs and values, and how Lawrence 's life was one of constant striving and craving. How does this relate to your work as an artist.

CON-DOM champions the individual within / despite society; personal freedom, personal  philosophy not politics / Politics. CON-DOM is a deconditioning process; the challenging and dissection of received wisdom; the testing of limits; the exploration of extremes of expression and experience. As for the message, so for the medium - a multi-disciplinary embodiment of CON-DOM's intent - pushing sound, vision, media and performance into new realms. Lawrence is the standard bearer of this 'manifesto' – a personification of and testament to its message.

There seems to be some correlation between Lawrence 's "tortured odyssey of physical and spiritual extremes, in search of his own fulfilment and personal faith" and that of your music, in that CON-DOM is an expression of self, a personal search. Is there a goal or is your principle one of expression of your ideas. How much fulfilment do you gain from CON-DOM ?

The work of CON-DOM has no overall tangible goal which, once achieved, would obviate the need for its existence. The aim is such that the raison d'etre will never disappear. The mission, the overriding principle is an ongoing illumination of CONTROL and DOMINATION as seen in the world around us. On a personal level, as with Lawrence , CON-DOM fulfills the need for personal freedom ; personal expression outside the mind-numbing straitjacket of work, family, domestic drudgery, political hypocrisy, social trivia - the deadweight of humdrum existence. It is a free rein set against the tight leash of control. It is sanity preserved in a system which smooths away all rough edges and awkward corners.

You continue to work in the realm of harsh electronics. In our previous interview you touched upon the relationship between extremity and purity - is this still why you think extreme noise remains valid ?

What is noise ? Noise contains within it the seeds / sounds/ symbolism of destruction - the sound of CON-DOM is the 'musical' sounds of others destroyed - an actual / symbolic demolition of one of society's pap edifices - we must destroy in order to rebuild - or it is a reinterpretive tribute to past masters - we can refurbish, remodel and redeem that which is intrinsically sound.

Noise is essentially classless, sexless etc. etc. - divorced from the baggage of society. Anyone can produce it, anyone can experience it, even appreciate it if even on the most visceral of levels. It is everywhere - produced by everyone - everyday. It is the great leveller - the level playing field on which to build. Noise is pure and cleansing - 'musical' sound / unmusical sound taken to its ultimate extreme - slowed down, speeded up, dismantled, broken down into constituent sound components. It remains the perfect vehicle for pure, cleansing ideas in a continuing age of compromise and adulteration.